The Ram and the Goat – Daniel Chapter 8

Background

Daniel had this vision, we’re told, in the third year of King Belshazzar, a couple of years after the vision of the four beasts, somewhere around 549BC. The study guide suggests he was probably in Persia at this time, acting as a Babylonian ambassador to King Cyrus of Persia, who Daniel knew from Isaiah was going to overthrow the Babylonian empire and eventually free the Jews from captivity. Although there’s no proof for this theory as such, it would definitely explain a few things, such as why Cyrus got on so well with Daniel and didn’t have him executed when he took Babylon. It could also mean that God communicated with Cyrus through Daniel. Interesting....

The Ram – What We’re Told

Verses 3 and 4 are the ones which give us the details about the first animal in the vision, the ram. It had two horns, one bigger than the other, although the bigger one grew up after the little one. When Daniel first sees it, the ram is standing beside the River Ulai, and as he watches, it begins pushing North, West and South (that’s up, down and left, Debbie) so powerfully that no other animal can resist it, and it ‘did according to its own will, and became great.’

The Ram – What It Means

Thankfully, we don’t have to work out the meaning of this vision ourselves, although it does tie in very closely with some of Daniel’s other visions. As he’s wondering what it’s all about, the angel Gabriel comes along to explain it to him.

The ram, he says, represents the Medo-Persian empire, and the two horns are the two kings of Media and Persia. This fits perfectly with what we know from history – the Medes (the little horn) were not nearly as powerful as the Persians (the huge big horn), which resulted in a bit of a lop-sided empire (remember that bear?). The ram pushed North, West and South –the Medo-Persians did exactly that, conquering the area around Israel and all the way down into Egypt and up into Turkey.

To begin with, Daniel sees the ram standing in Shushan, by the River Ulai –this was the city that became the centre of the Persian empire, and where Cyrus ruled from. From what I could find from a quick Google, Shushan was actually under Babylonian control at the time of this vision, so this was actually another part of the prophecy, predicting where Cyrus would choose to set up camp and centre his empire around.

The Goat – What We’re Told

The second animal, the goat, is in stark contrast to the Medo-Persian ram. Unlike the ram, standing by the river, the goat comes charging in from the West, moving so fast it doesn’t even touch the ground, and flattens the ram, breaking its two horns and trampling it into the ground. The goat has just the one ‘notable’ horn right between its eyes, but once the goat has defeated the ram and ‘grown very great,’ this one horn is broken, and four new ones rise up to replace it. Then, one of these four horns starts causing trouble... but we'll look at him later.

The Goat - What It Means

Gabriel helps out with this one, too. The goat is the Greek Empire, and the 'notable' horn is the first ruler of this empire. History again backs this up. The first Greek ruler, the chap who really kick-started the whole empire, was Alexander the Great. The incredible thing about this guy was the speed with which he expanded his empire. In the 13 years between the start of his rule and his death at 33, he conquered much of the known world. (click map to see full size)

This is exactly as described in the vision - the goat moved so fast, it didn't even touch the ground. He comes flying in from the West and hammers into the Medo-Persians, first destroying their main force at the Battle of Issus in 333BC (I love Wikipedia) then chasing Darius about a bit until he was executed by one of his own Persian vassals.

Anyway, back on topic. The big horn was Alexander, but we read that once this horn had become strong, it broke, and was replaced by four other 'notable' horns. Again, scarily accurate. Alexander died suddenly at the age of 33, just at the height of his powers, and since he left no heir, the empire was split between his four generals, Cassander, Lysimachus, Seleucus and Ptolemy.

The Little Horn

The little horn is where it gets tricky, though. Basically, we're told another little horn grew out of one of the four, became great toward the South, the East and the Glorious Land, grew very powerful, exalted itself, and cast down the place of the Sanctuary and took away the daily sacrifices. V12 says the horn 'cast truth down to the ground.'

The book, at this point, offers two suggestions. The first is that this horn refers to a bloke called Antiochus Epiphanes, who was a later ruler of the Selucid part of the ex-Greek empire, and who really took it out on the Jews. This would fit with some of the details, but not all. For instance, he is known to have defiled the altar in the Temple by sacrificing a pig on it (v11 mentions something like this), but does not fit with some of the other bits.

Verses 23-26 is where we really find out more about this horn, however. It's Gabriel again, explaining some stuff and giving us some more to think about. We talked about this a fair bit, and especially about the book's suggestion that all this could refer to Islam.

This seems (to me at least) to be a very reasonable interpretation. Reading through that section again, every detail is important, and every detail could be linked to the rise of Islam and its position in the world today. We discussed a few:

• South, East and towards the Glorious Land: from Greece, if we look in those directions, we end up with an area which covers most of the Middle East, Northern Africa, and some of South Asia. In other words, an area that is almost entirely Muslim (except Israel).
• Sacrifices and Sanctuary taken away/cast down: What stands in place of God's temple right now? A fairly chunky piece of architecture called the Dome of the Rock - a Muslim place of worship. Can the Jews sacrifice there any more? No...
• Oppression: If you've been watching the news at all any time in the last couple of thousand years, you might have noticed that the Jews and the Muslims don't really get on. Even just in the last fifty years, since Israel was reinstated, there have been several wars and terrorist campaigns directed at the Israelites.

Which brings us back to those verses at the end again. They talk mainly of some sort of king - but surely religions don't have kings? I don't think we really discussed this a lot, seeing as we were running out of time a bit, but it's possible that these verses could refer to somebody like Osama bin Laden.

He has 'arisen in the latter times of the kingdom,' and there's no question that he 'understands sinister schemes.' He has power, but not really his own - he works by piggybacking on the Islamic faith, recruiting suicide bombers etc using the teachings in the Qur'an. He 'destroys fearfully' - that's what terrorism is all about, really. He 'destroys the mighty' - look what he did to America. It's no surprise that he would 'exalt himself in his heart' and 9/11 showcases how he has the capacity to 'destroy many in their prosperity.'

So, it would seem he fits. But, again, it's only a suggestion. All we can really do is keep our eyes open, think about things we see in the news and how they could relate to prophecies like this one in Daniel. We've seen how the early part of the vision was spot-on right, and we can logically deduce that the rest of it will be, too. Right now, we are living in those 'latter days' that Chapter 8 talks about, and we can see prophecies coming true all over the place. Eyes peeled, folks.

That's my thoughts and recollections from what we talked about, anyway. If I've missed stuff out, post a comment below. Sorry it's (slightly) late in coming. Oh, and quite long. And slightly rambly towards the end. If you're still reading by this point, kudos.